Ethics and Tech

Ahegaliant

I'm taking a class on the subject, and am curious if anyone here has any thoughts and opinions they'd like to share. Should robots have rights, is it fine if every worker is replaced by a machine, do you think upgrading our bodies past our natural limitations is neat, etc. Have you heard of anything you think more peeps should know about? Keep it casual or go all out, I'll oblige either way.

Sathariel

Ahegaliant wrote:
I'm taking a class on the subject, and am curious if anyone here has any thoughts and opinions they'd like to share. Should robots have rights, is it fine if every worker is replaced by a machine, do you think upgrading our bodies past our natural limitations is neat, etc. Have you heard of anything you think more peeps should know about? Keep it casual or go all out, I'll oblige either way.

So many interesting questions in this thread.

I think robots and any sentient being should have rights, and if its level of consciousness is similar to human level they should have human-level rights.

Replacing a worker with a machine could give bigger benefits to the rest of society but still being so bad for the worker and his/her family so this question is harder to answer.

malmon

Whether robots should have rights or not I think depends on exactly how advanced they become. Present day robots, definitely not. But perhaps in the future, if machine learning perhaps starts showing signs of sentience, then maybe.

Every worker being replaced by a machine wouldn't work in a capitalist society, but would in a socialist/communist one. So yes, I think it is fine - it would give people the freedom to do what they want with their lives, rather than have to stress over being able to afford food and a home.

Upgrading bodies past natural limitations does already happen to a certain degree with caffiene, steroids, and other drugs. Any modifications that significantly improve quality of life should be available to everyone, otherwise you'll end up with a top 1% of elite superhumans.

There have been some interesting TED Talks about the future of AI:

Ahegaliant

Lokorfi wrote:
Just as a preface I am bad with ethics, especially in the robotics section.

Should robots have rights?
This is probably one of the harder questions to answer, since there are so many interpretations to it. In my opinion, it will have to depend on the level of autonomy that robot technology will be at when this question is more seriously posed and when they become more common throughout society. Will they need or want rights? If so, then give them their rights. I'm sure they want to be on the same level as any human being like you and me if they're able to discern their own desires as machines.

Is it fine if every worker is replaced by a machine?
While I agree that a certain degree of automation should be able to streamline a process of production, fully automated labor would most definitely not be good for people looking for jobs, especially in the lower wage tier. I'm sure you've already heard the big reasons against it like the unknown consequences for the economy and whatnot.

I'd answer the last question but my brain is already hurting thinking about this stuff. It's not too bad though! 🙂

Haha right on! I feel like the wrench in most of the existing questions out there is us humans. It'd be nice to have subservient machines working for us for their efficiency, but an irresponsible or dangerous individual could maybe bring harm to society thanks to advanced tech. Think hackable pacemakers. If machines were more independent and thus programmed to identify and have prejudice towards certain behaviors and threats that'd fix certain issues but activists would probably rightfully pop a vein over how to treat them.

The only way a total workforce replacement would work is if the bar for education was higher and stable. We'd need a preoccupation too or society could crumble (^-^)7

Thanks for your input dood

Ahegaliant

Sathariel wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
I'm taking a class on the subject, and am curious if anyone here has any thoughts and opinions they'd like to share. Should robots have rights, is it fine if every worker is replaced by a machine, do you think upgrading our bodies past our natural limitations is neat, etc. Have you heard of anything you think more peeps should know about? Keep it casual or go all out, I'll oblige either way.

So many interesting questions in this thread.

I think robots and any sentient being should have rights, and if its level of consciousness is similar to human level they should have human-level rights.

Replacing a worker with a machine could give bigger benefits to the rest of society but still being so bad for the worker and his/her family so this question is harder to answer.

Thank for your time, and those were the only questions on my mind at the time :p

I agree, I wouldn't want to be treated as someone's lesser. I only worry about the fact that while we're limited by our biology, machines are limited to our creativity and intelligence.

Yeah, it'd definitely hurt anyone who didn't see it coming / prepare for another job.

I don't think I'd mind being ruled over by cute robots if it happens one day .,.

Ahegaliant

malmon wrote:
Whether robots should have rights or not I think depends on exactly how advanced they become. Present day robots, definitely not. But perhaps in the future, if machine learning perhaps starts showing signs of sentience, then maybe.

Every worker being replaced by a machine wouldn't work in a capitalist society, but would in a socialist/communist one. So yes, I think it is fine - it would give people the freedom to do what they want with their lives, rather than have to stress over being able to afford food and a home.

Upgrading bodies past natural limitations does already happen to a certain degree with caffiene, steroids, and other drugs. Any modifications that significantly improve quality of life should be available to everyone, otherwise you'll end up with a top 1% of elite superhumans.

There have been some interesting TED Talks about the future of AI:

Oh hey yeah, spot on. You're pretty cautious.

I'd love to only do what I'm passionate about, but I wonder if in a society like that I'd be able to get the things, home, environment I wanted in a straightforward way. I'd be paranoid about corruption breaking out too haha.

Lasik turned out to be a bit too expensive for me, so I'm a bit biased here. The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

malmon

Ahegaliant wrote:
malmon wrote:
Whether robots should have rights or not I think depends on exactly how advanced they become. Present day robots, definitely not. But perhaps in the future, if machine learning perhaps starts showing signs of sentience, then maybe.

Every worker being replaced by a machine wouldn't work in a capitalist society, but would in a socialist/communist one. So yes, I think it is fine - it would give people the freedom to do what they want with their lives, rather than have to stress over being able to afford food and a home.

Upgrading bodies past natural limitations does already happen to a certain degree with caffiene, steroids, and other drugs. Any modifications that significantly improve quality of life should be available to everyone, otherwise you'll end up with a top 1% of elite superhumans.

There have been some interesting TED Talks about the future of AI:

Oh hey yeah, spot on. You're pretty cautious.

I'd love to only do what I'm passionate about, but I wonder if in a society like that I'd be able to get the things, home, environment I wanted in a straightforward way. I'd be paranoid about corruption breaking out too haha.

Lasik turned out to be a bit too expensive for me, so I'm a bit biased here. The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

Yeah, corruption would be a problem - I guess somehow society would have to be structured such that there is no incentive for corruption, but I expect that's a conundrum that isn't easily solved.

And that's the point of making sure that all such enchancements are available to everyone, so criminals and such wouldn't necessarily have any advantage over other people. Laser eye surgery just seems terrifying to me - no suregon's gonna be sticking a scalpel in my eye!

Ahegaliant

Lokorfi wrote:
Although I am pointed towards PSYCHO-PASS for a similar perspective on how this would be in the future.

Niceeee, and I bet all the humanitarians would be intense in their involvement with making sure things don't escalate too quickly.

Ahegaliant

Just let it happen ^-^ One minute of fear and a few tears later you can see! You need a lot of money or good insurance though.

malmon

Ahegaliant wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
Although I am pointed towards PSYCHO-PASS for a similar perspective on how this would be in the future.

Niceeee, and I bet all the humanitarians would be intense in their involvement with making sure things don't escalate too quickly.

How strange, all the humanitarians trying to limit the power of the sybil system have been marked as criminals!

malmon

Lokorfi wrote:
malmon wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
malmon wrote:
Whether robots should have rights or not I think depends on exactly how advanced they become. Present day robots, definitely not. But perhaps in the future, if machine learning perhaps starts showing signs of sentience, then maybe.

Every worker being replaced by a machine wouldn't work in a capitalist society, but would in a socialist/communist one. So yes, I think it is fine - it would give people the freedom to do what they want with their lives, rather than have to stress over being able to afford food and a home.

Upgrading bodies past natural limitations does already happen to a certain degree with caffiene, steroids, and other drugs. Any modifications that significantly improve quality of life should be available to everyone, otherwise you'll end up with a top 1% of elite superhumans.

There have been some interesting TED Talks about the future of AI:

Oh hey yeah, spot on. You're pretty cautious.

I'd love to only do what I'm passionate about, but I wonder if in a society like that I'd be able to get the things, home, environment I wanted in a straightforward way. I'd be paranoid about corruption breaking out too haha.

Lasik turned out to be a bit too expensive for me, so I'm a bit biased here. The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

Yeah, corruption would be a problem - I guess somehow society would have to be structured such that there is no incentive for corruption, but I expect that's a conundrum that isn't easily solved.

And that's the point of making sure that all such enchancements are available to everyone, so criminals and such wouldn't necessarily have any advantage over other people. Laser eye surgery just seems terrifying to me - no suregon's gonna be sticking a scalpel in my eye!

I think they use lasers not scalpels.

Also while enhancements being available to everyone would be great, I think there would still be a small percentage of people who are either unable to use this tech or are choosing not to - and this could probably lead to stigmatizing of the "unevolved human being" or whatnot. Discrimination ain't so fun, especially when it's from people who can't fight back against... uhh... super strength or laser eyes? And also if everyone gets enhancements, there's also the danger of "superhuman" gangs or the fearlessness of death (depending on how deep these advancements may go). I don't know, there's just a lot of things to think about with this.

They use scalpels in order to actually get to the part that's to be lasered.

That's a good point you raise there, I suppose some really good education would have to be in order, and something like this probably couldn't be calmly implemented overnight.

Sathariel

Lokorfi wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

While crime might develop in its complexities, I'm sure the police won't be idling around. I'm sure that government agencies will have ample resources and technological advantages over a civilian in order to bring the case to a close. Although I am pointed towards PSYCHO-PASS for a similar perspective on how this would be in the future.

It's either, Psycho Pass or Texcnolyze. And both are awful visions of the future.

Ahegaliant

Sathariel wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

While crime might develop in its complexities, I'm sure the police won't be idling around. I'm sure that government agencies will have ample resources and technological advantages over a civilian in order to bring the case to a close. Although I am pointed towards PSYCHO-PASS for a similar perspective on how this would be in the future.

It's either, Psycho Pass or Texcnolyze. And both are awful visions of the future.

Texcnolyze? Is that good?

malmon wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
Although I am pointed towards PSYCHO-PASS for a similar perspective on how this would be in the future.

Niceeee, and I bet all the humanitarians would be intense in their involvement with making sure things don't escalate too quickly.

How strange, all the humanitarians trying to limit the power of the sybil system have been marked as criminals!

tch

Ahegaliant

malmon wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
malmon wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
Oh hey yeah, spot on. You're pretty cautious.

I'd love to only do what I'm passionate about, but I wonder if in a society like that I'd be able to get the things, home, environment I wanted in a straightforward way. I'd be paranoid about corruption breaking out too haha.

Lasik turned out to be a bit too expensive for me, so I'm a bit biased here. The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

Yeah, corruption would be a problem - I guess somehow society would have to be structured such that there is no incentive for corruption, but I expect that's a conundrum that isn't easily solved.

And that's the point of making sure that all such enchancements are available to everyone, so criminals and such wouldn't necessarily have any advantage over other people. Laser eye surgery just seems terrifying to me - no suregon's gonna be sticking a scalpel in my eye!

I think they use lasers not scalpels.

Also while enhancements being available to everyone would be great, I think there would still be a small percentage of people who are either unable to use this tech or are choosing not to - and this could probably lead to stigmatizing of the "unevolved human being" or whatnot. Discrimination ain't so fun, especially when it's from people who can't fight back against... uhh... super strength or laser eyes? And also if everyone gets enhancements, there's also the danger of "superhuman" gangs or the fearlessness of death (depending on how deep these advancements may go). I don't know, there's just a lot of things to think about with this.

They use scalpels in order to actually get to the part that's to be lasered.

That's a good point you raise there, I suppose some really good education would have to be in order, and something like this probably couldn't be calmly implemented overnight.

I'm going to look into Japan's crime rates before and after "moe". I BET cute things reduce crime.

malmon

Ahegaliant wrote:
malmon wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
malmon wrote:
Yeah, corruption would be a problem - I guess somehow society would have to be structured such that there is no incentive for corruption, but I expect that's a conundrum that isn't easily solved.

And that's the point of making sure that all such enchancements are available to everyone, so criminals and such wouldn't necessarily have any advantage over other people. Laser eye surgery just seems terrifying to me - no suregon's gonna be sticking a scalpel in my eye!

I think they use lasers not scalpels.

Also while enhancements being available to everyone would be great, I think there would still be a small percentage of people who are either unable to use this tech or are choosing not to - and this could probably lead to stigmatizing of the "unevolved human being" or whatnot. Discrimination ain't so fun, especially when it's from people who can't fight back against... uhh... super strength or laser eyes? And also if everyone gets enhancements, there's also the danger of "superhuman" gangs or the fearlessness of death (depending on how deep these advancements may go). I don't know, there's just a lot of things to think about with this.

They use scalpels in order to actually get to the part that's to be lasered.

That's a good point you raise there, I suppose some really good education would have to be in order, and something like this probably couldn't be calmly implemented overnight.

I'm going to look into Japan's crime rates before and after "moe". I BET cute things reduce crime.

Perhaps we need legally mandated moe doses - kinda like those countries that won't allow unvaccinated kids in to public schools.

Sathariel

Ahegaliant wrote:
Sathariel wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
The prospect of tireless limbs, powerful eyes, and scary brains seems like a dream. Crime would probably develop more finesse though. A killer with those dream-like qualities would be pretty rough to deal with.

While crime might develop in its complexities, I'm sure the police won't be idling around. I'm sure that government agencies will have ample resources and technological advantages over a civilian in order to bring the case to a close. Although I am pointed towards PSYCHO-PASS for a similar perspective on how this would be in the future.

It's either, Psycho Pass or Texcnolyze. And both are awful visions of the future.

Texcnolyze? Is that good?

Oh yes, it is good but so crude, violent and full of dispair. And it's related to humans replacing their body parts with machines.

malmon

Lokorfi wrote:
malmon wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
malmon wrote:
They use scalpels in order to actually get to the part that's to be lasered.

That's a good point you raise there, I suppose some really good education would have to be in order, and something like this probably couldn't be calmly implemented overnight.

I'm going to look into Japan's crime rates before and after "moe". I BET cute things reduce crime.

Perhaps we need legally mandated moe doses - kinda like those countries that won't allow unvaccinated kids in to public schools.

I think this might start affecting their development. Soon we'll have a generation of children with giant eyes and rounded faces.

All that's left is the cat ears and tail

Ahegaliant

Lokorfi wrote:
malmon wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
malmon wrote:
They use scalpels in order to actually get to the part that's to be lasered.

That's a good point you raise there, I suppose some really good education would have to be in order, and something like this probably couldn't be calmly implemented overnight.

I'm going to look into Japan's crime rates before and after "moe". I BET cute things reduce crime.

Perhaps we need legally mandated moe doses - kinda like those countries that won't allow unvaccinated kids in to public schools.

I think this might start affecting their development. Soon we'll have a generation of children with giant eyes and rounded faces.

I'm not sure if that looks bad, I can't picture what they'd look like grown up... Everyone being cute doesn't seem too rough.

Ahegaliant

Lokorfi wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
malmon wrote:
Perhaps we need legally mandated moe doses - kinda like those countries that won't allow unvaccinated kids in to public schools.

I think this might start affecting their development. Soon we'll have a generation of children with giant eyes and rounded faces.

I'm not sure if that looks bad, I can't picture what they'd look like grown up... Everyone being cute doesn't seem too rough.

Give it a few centuries and we'll all be Kirby.

Ouch. Could be worse I guess. Just need to condition myself to think Kirby is attractive 🙁

malmon

Ahegaliant wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
Ahegaliant wrote:
Lokorfi wrote:
I think this might start affecting their development. Soon we'll have a generation of children with giant eyes and rounded faces.

I'm not sure if that looks bad, I can't picture what they'd look like grown up... Everyone being cute doesn't seem too rough.

Give it a few centuries and we'll all be Kirby.

Ouch. Could be worse I guess. Just need to condition myself to think Kirby is attractive 🙁

Well, it's not like you'll be alive in a few centuries. At least... probably not, who knows? Perhaps aging will be cured soon!