Mandatory distro question

by hg088
  • SinaCutie 03-29-2017, 10:51 AM
    Debian for my servers, Manjaro for my desktop. Manjaro gives me the love of Arch without the hassle of installing manually. <3
  • loki~ 03-30-2017, 05:34 AM (Edited 03-30-2017, 05:34 AM)
    Arch Linux is the lazy man's Gentoo
    Any other distro is just the lazy man's Arch.

    Moral of the story? Install Gentoo >:3

    [spoiler]
    For real though, I use Arch with i3wm installed on an XFS drive on my laptop.
    My Desktop currently runs Windows because it's mid-semester and I don't have time to faff around with setting up passthrough.

    I spend most of my time on my laptop.
    [/spoiler]
  • Steph 04-01-2017, 04:09 PM (Edited 04-01-2017, 04:10 PM)
    (03-29-2017, 06:34 AM)Backlash Wrote: Here's my question: Why use anything other than Ubuntu and its variants?

    I mean sure, Arch is customizable, but I hear it's a bit of a chore to set up. When the OS itself becomes a hobby; isn't that somewhat counterproductive?


    Arch is a chore to set up, but it's not that hard to maintain. This means that because arch is barely more effort to use after initial setup than ubuntu, arch only has to be a bit better to pay off long-term. For non-programmers, there's not really any reason to use arch over ubuntu. However for me, arch is a huge win because the packages are up to date. Because Debian and Ubuntu are stable distributions, their packages tend to be months to years out of date. It ends up that eventually you do need the latest version of X, Y, and Z and it turns into a pain in the ass to install. On arch, living on the bleeding edge is a lot easier, and the packages are a whole lot more up to date by default.

    I also enjoyed setting up arch, and it taught me a lot about linux. This knowledge is transferrable to any linux distro, including debian and ubuntu.
  • dwell 04-01-2017, 05:01 PM
    (03-29-2017, 06:34 AM)Backlash Wrote: Here's my question: Why use anything other than Ubuntu and its variants?

    I mean sure, Arch is customizable, but I hear it's a bit of a chore to set up. When the OS itself becomes a hobby; isn't that somewhat counterproductive?


    It is a time thing if you want the Arch or anything minimal like that as your main OS. If you still want to learn you can always go the vm route. Also on thing to keep in mind about linux distros they are all the same except the initramfs and default kernel config.
  • Steph 04-01-2017, 05:19 PM
    (04-01-2017, 05:01 PM)AbsentLife Wrote: Also on thing to keep in mind about linux distros they are all the same except the initramfs and default kernel config.


    Wat. That's plainly not true.
  • dwell 04-03-2017, 02:01 AM
    (04-01-2017, 05:19 PM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-01-2017, 05:01 PM)AbsentLife Wrote: Also on thing to keep in mind about linux distros they are all the same except the initramfs and default kernel config.


    Wat. That's plainly not true.


    Everything else is either a config file or a package. Even package managers can replaced and changed.
  • Steph 04-03-2017, 04:18 AM
    (04-03-2017, 02:01 AM)AbsentLife Wrote:
    (04-01-2017, 05:19 PM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-01-2017, 05:01 PM)AbsentLife Wrote: Also on thing to keep in mind about linux distros they are all the same except the initramfs and default kernel config.


    Wat. That's plainly not true.


    Everything else is either a config file or a package. Even package managers can replaced and changed.


    - The packages have different versions for each distro
    - The packages have different patches for each distro
    - The packages are built differently for each distro
    - The packages have different default configs for each distro
    - The packages in the "base set" are different for each distro
    - Distros use different package managers with different featuresets

    There's a whole lot different between distros. "Everything else is either a config file or a package". The kernel and intramfs ARE packages. Sure, packages are the "only difference" between distros, but thats because distros are entirely composed of packages. There's nothing else to BE different.
  • dwell 04-03-2017, 08:29 AM
    (04-03-2017, 04:18 AM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-03-2017, 02:01 AM)AbsentLife Wrote:
    (04-01-2017, 05:19 PM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-01-2017, 05:01 PM)AbsentLife Wrote: Also on thing to keep in mind about linux distros they are all the same except the initramfs and default kernel config.


    Wat. That's plainly not true.


    Everything else is either a config file or a package. Even package managers can replaced and changed.


    - The packages have different versions for each distro
    - The packages have different patches for each distro
    - The packages are built differently for each distro
    - The packages have different default configs for each distro
    - The packages in the "base set" are different for each distro
    - Distros use different package managers with different featuresets

    There's a whole lot different between distros. "Everything else is either a config file or a package". The kernel and intramfs ARE packages. Sure, packages are the "only difference" between distros, but thats because distros are entirely composed of packages. There's nothing else to BE different.


    Everything about packages can be changed on any linux distro no package is special nor does that make a distro special for having a certain version or patch or a package. Builds are incredibly similar since packages are built to run on as many machines as possible. Configs are just files that can copied. Base sets are just collection of packages that someone thought would go nice together. You are right about package managers. The kernel and the initramfs are the only two thing that are not interchangeable and define a distribution. Also initramfs is not a package.
  • loki~ 04-03-2017, 08:52 AM
    (04-01-2017, 04:09 PM)RX14 Wrote:
    (03-29-2017, 06:34 AM)Backlash Wrote: Here's my question: Why use anything other than Ubuntu and its variants?

    I mean sure, Arch is customizable, but I hear it's a bit of a chore to set up. When the OS itself becomes a hobby; isn't that somewhat counterproductive?


    Arch is a chore to set up, but it's not that hard to maintain. This means that because arch is barely more effort to use after initial setup than ubuntu, arch only has to be a bit better to pay off long-term. For non-programmers, there's not really any reason to use arch over ubuntu. However for me, arch is a huge win because the packages are up to date. Because Debian and Ubuntu are stable distributions, their packages tend to be months to years out of date. It ends up that eventually you do need the latest version of X, Y, and Z and it turns into a pain in the ass to install. On arch, living on the bleeding edge is a lot easier, and the packages are a whole lot more up to date by default.

    I also enjoyed setting up arch, and it taught me a lot about linux. This knowledge is transferrable to any linux distro, including debian and ubuntu.


    This pretty much.
    I love the process of installing arch. The people that say that bleeding edge is unstable are wrong. It's incredibly rare that an update to anything with break something.

    Another primary reason to install something like Arch is purely that it has 0 bloat. Something like Ubuntu has a fuckload of pre-installed packages that you don't necessarily want or use.
    Sure, they make an entirely usable desktop OS, but for a lot of users they won't use even half of the packages it comes with.
    If you just want something that "just werks" then Ubuntu is fine, but personally I want to set up my system to work efficiently using only the packages necessary to do so.
    You have other options than Arch if you want to achieve that, such as the Manjaro Net Install seeing as Manjaro is basically Arch just without the need to fuck around with manually setting up the base installation.

    Oh and another negative for some is that Ubuntu isn't FSF compliant, people don't like that a large for-profit company develops Ubuntu, and it comes with some things that heavily invade privacy out of the box.
    I think they can be disabled in the settings, however they're switched on by default and most don't know they're on unless they stumble across them in the settings.
    Arch has non-FSF compliant packages in its repositories, but the OS itself is FSF compliant as far as I know.
  • Steph 04-03-2017, 09:00 AM (Edited 04-03-2017, 09:01 AM)
    (04-03-2017, 08:29 AM)AbsentLife Wrote:
    (04-03-2017, 04:18 AM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-03-2017, 02:01 AM)AbsentLife Wrote:
    (04-01-2017, 05:19 PM)RX14 Wrote: Wat. That's plainly not true.


    Everything else is either a config file or a package. Even package managers can replaced and changed.


    - The packages have different versions for each distro
    - The packages have different patches for each distro
    - The packages are built differently for each distro
    - The packages have different default configs for each distro
    - The packages in the "base set" are different for each distro
    - Distros use different package managers with different featuresets

    There's a whole lot different between distros. "Everything else is either a config file or a package". The kernel and intramfs ARE packages. Sure, packages are the "only difference" between distros, but thats because distros are entirely composed of packages. There's nothing else to BE different.


    Everything about packages can be changed on any linux distro no package is special nor does that make a distro special for having a certain version or patch or a package. Builds are incredibly similar since packages are built to run on as many machines as possible. Configs are just files that can copied. Base sets are just collection of packages that someone thought would go nice together. You are right about package managers. The kernel and the initramfs are the only two thing that are not interchangeable and define a distribution. Also initramfs is not a package.


    I'd argue that if you change every package then it's just your own distro. You could change and rebuild the packages, use different versions than everyone else using the distro, or install your own set of base packages. But what matters about a distribution is the community, and if you're so far away from what 99% of people use, you're essentially using your own distro. For the 99.9% who do not significantly edit their distro, they will see a huge difference between different distributions, and that's why distros are not "all the same".

    You're also right about the initramfs. It's not technically a package, it's typically generated by another package on the machine (mkinitcpio in arch).
  • dwell 04-03-2017, 08:54 PM
    (04-03-2017, 09:00 AM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-03-2017, 08:29 AM)AbsentLife Wrote:
    (04-03-2017, 04:18 AM)RX14 Wrote:
    (04-03-2017, 02:01 AM)AbsentLife Wrote: Everything else is either a config file or a package. Even package managers can replaced and changed.


    - The packages have different versions for each distro
    - The packages have different patches for each distro
    - The packages are built differently for each distro
    - The packages have different default configs for each distro
    - The packages in the "base set" are different for each distro
    - Distros use different package managers with different featuresets

    There's a whole lot different between distros. "Everything else is either a config file or a package". The kernel and intramfs ARE packages. Sure, packages are the "only difference" between distros, but thats because distros are entirely composed of packages. There's nothing else to BE different.


    Everything about packages can be changed on any linux distro no package is special nor does that make a distro special for having a certain version or patch or a package. Builds are incredibly similar since packages are built to run on as many machines as possible. Configs are just files that can copied. Base sets are just collection of packages that someone thought would go nice together. You are right about package managers. The kernel and the initramfs are the only two thing that are not interchangeable and define a distribution. Also initramfs is not a package.


    I'd argue that if you change every package then it's just your own distro. You could change and rebuild the packages, use different versions than everyone else using the distro, or install your own set of base packages. But what matters about a distribution is the community, and if you're so far away from what 99% of people use, you're essentially using your own distro. For the 99.9% who do not significantly edit their distro, they will see a huge difference between different distributions, and that's why distros are not "all the same".

    You're also right about the initramfs. It's not technically a package, it's typically generated by another package on the machine (mkinitcpio in arch).


    You are right about distros being different in a casual sense. After spending sometime using linux the difference in packages feel mundane to me. I find myself look at how initramfs works and the default kernel config, to differentiate distribution, more than what comes prepackaged. Even then a kernel config is just a file so I end up looking at what kind of kernel is in use.

    Well I think all is said so thanks for providing me some insight of some shit I do not think about anymore.
  • Backlash 03-21-2019, 12:37 AM (Edited 03-21-2019, 12:52 AM)
    Riight, so after fiddling with Manjaro for days over a small but fatal bug, I figured I'd opt for a Debian-based distro for out-of-the-box stability. Ended up using KDE Neon, which is pretty much just Kubuntu without the bloat.

    What's everyone else running these days? ^_^

    [Image: K5Gm9di.png]
  • malmon 03-21-2019, 08:16 AM
    (03-21-2019, 12:37 AM)Backlash Wrote: Riight, so after fiddling with Manjaro for days over a small but fatal bug, I figured I'd opt for a Debian-based distro for out-of-the-box stability. Ended up using KDE Neon, which is pretty much just Kubuntu without the bloat.

    What's everyone else running these days? ^_^

    -snip-


    Void Linux with i3 ^_^

    A stable rolling-release distro with a pretty friendly community, and pretty simple packaging system.
  • Lawly 03-21-2019, 11:55 AM
    (03-21-2019, 12:37 AM)Backlash Wrote: Riight, so after fiddling with Manjaro for days over a small but fatal bug, I figured I'd opt for a Debian-based distro for out-of-the-box stability. Ended up using KDE Neon, which is pretty much just Kubuntu without the bloat.

    What's everyone else running these days? ^_^

    [Image: K5Gm9di.png]


    I'm using KDE Neon as well! I like having the newest KDE updates and I don't care about the underlying distro as long as it is stable, so I might as well stick with the LTS Ubuntu base.
  • 水面の朧月 07-28-2019, 09:46 PM
    Decided to switch to using Linux on this brand new computer because a lot of reasons; one of them being that I kind of hate how hard it is to customize the look of windows. Everything looks beautiful, really customizable, consume little resources while being really smooth and all that. Despite being a total noob at anything computer related, I love it. Currently on Manjaro. I've been spending quite some time trying to get my games to work. Some of them work from the get go, some of them require a few days of looking up stuff on the internet and then there are a few games which just crash without any error message for me to work on or just have an issue which I have no idea how to describe.

    Anyway, I have this habit of pressing windows + shift + s to take screenshots but holding down windows + shift makes my cursor draw an annoying red line that won't go away and stay on top of everything. Still haven't figured it out how to fix that.
  • Backlash 07-29-2019, 12:27 AM (Edited 07-29-2019, 02:18 AM)
    (07-28-2019, 09:46 PM)水面の朧月 Wrote: Decided to switch to using Linux on this brand new computer because a lot of reasons; one of them being that I kind of hate how hard it is to customize the look of windows. Everything looks beautiful, really customizable, consume little resources while being really smooth and all that. Despite being a total noob at anything computer related, I love it. Currently on Manjaro. I've been spending quite some time trying to get my games to work. Some of them work from the get go, some of them require a few days of looking up stuff on the internet and then there are a few games which just crash without any error message for me to work on or just have an issue which I have no idea how to describe.

    Anyway, I have this habit of pressing windows + shift + s to take screenshots but holding down windows + shift makes my cursor draw an annoying red line that won't go away and stay on top of everything.  Still haven't figured it out how to fix that.


    Congrats, love! If you're looking for eye-candy, Linux is the place to be; the KDE desktop environment is easily the best as far as customization goes. ^^

    Although... It's worth mentioning, Manjaro really isn't a beginner's distro. I actually tried it myself on my laptop, and I gave up after days of constant tinkering. That's fine if you're into that, but if you want a distro that "just works" for gaming, I really couldn't recommend Kubuntu enough.
  • malmon 07-29-2019, 02:43 AM
    (07-29-2019, 12:27 AM)Backlash Wrote:
    (07-28-2019, 09:46 PM)水面の朧月 Wrote: Decided to switch to using Linux on this brand new computer because a lot of reasons; one of them being that I kind of hate how hard it is to customize the look of windows. Everything looks beautiful, really customizable, consume little resources while being really smooth and all that. Despite being a total noob at anything computer related, I love it. Currently on Manjaro. I've been spending quite some time trying to get my games to work. Some of them work from the get go, some of them require a few days of looking up stuff on the internet and then there are a few games which just crash without any error message for me to work on or just have an issue which I have no idea how to describe.

    Anyway, I have this habit of pressing windows + shift + s to take screenshots but holding down windows + shift makes my cursor draw an annoying red line that won't go away and stay on top of everything.  Still haven't figured it out how to fix that.


    Congrats, love! If you're looking for eye-candy, Linux is the place to be; the KDE desktop environment is easily the best as far as customization goes. ^^

    Although... It's worth mentioning, Manjaro really isn't a beginner's distro. I actually tried it myself on my laptop, and I gave up after days of constant tinkering. That's fine if you're into that, but if you want a distro that "just works" for gaming, I really couldn't recommend Kubuntu enough.


    Though with non-rolling releases like *ubuntu, you may have to manually update the kernel to get the latest gpu divers. It's not really difficult with ukuu though.
  • Kukuru 07-29-2019, 03:56 AM
    (07-28-2019, 09:46 PM)水面の朧月 Wrote: Decided to switch to using Linux on this brand new computer because a lot of reasons; one of them being that I kind of hate how hard it is to customize the look of windows. Everything looks beautiful, really customizable, consume little resources while being really smooth and all that. Despite being a total noob at anything computer related, I love it. Currently on Manjaro. I've been spending quite some time trying to get my games to work. Some of them work from the get go, some of them require a few days of looking up stuff on the internet and then there are a few games which just crash without any error message for me to work on or just have an issue which I have no idea how to describe.

    Anyway, I have this habit of pressing windows + shift + s to take screenshots but holding down windows + shift makes my cursor draw an annoying red line that won't go away and stay on top of everything.  Still haven't figured it out how to fix that.


    Oh hey another arch user! Welcome to the fold~
    For running games I cannot recommend enough a qemu virtual machine with windows on it
    Outside of the initial setup there are no compatibility issues, but it requires compatible hardware
    See here for more details
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PCI...h_via_OVMF
  • tn5421 08-30-2019, 03:17 AM
    Manjaro is definitely not a total beginner's distro, but it works fine for everything I do daily, other than a few games that don't work with Valve's Proton just yet.
  • tn5421 08-30-2019, 03:18 AM
    [Image: 6TFEiXn.png]


    And yes, I know I have a lot of 'bloat', and that my cpu is older than dirt.  Shush.
  • Backlash 08-31-2019, 07:54 AM
    (08-30-2019, 03:18 AM)tn5421 Wrote: [Image: 6TFEiXn.png]


    And yes, I know I have a lot of 'bloat', and that my cpu is older than dirt.  Shush.



    I love old hardware, though! Especially from AMD. My old Vista PC had an Athlon and a basic graphics card, and it lasted me all throughout high school. ^^
  • malmon 08-31-2019, 08:37 AM
    (08-31-2019, 07:54 AM)Backlash Wrote:
    (08-30-2019, 03:18 AM)tn5421 Wrote: [Image: 6TFEiXn.png]


    And yes, I know I have a lot of 'bloat', and that my cpu is older than dirt.  Shush.



    I love old hardware, though! Especially from AMD. My old Vista PC had an Athlon and a basic graphics card, and it lasted me all throughout high school. ^^


    To be fair, Athlon left a far better taste in people's mouthes than Bulldozer ^_^'
  • mage_princess 08-31-2019, 04:47 PM
    My laptop and my server run Fedora. My vm lab (windows 10 desktop host) has a slew of things. Ubuntus, kalis, remnux, pfsense. Metasploitable. 

    I used to run arch on my laptop, and it was good. Never quite got around to customizing my awesome  wm how I wanted, and the defaults were lacking. I'm forced to use macs at work, so I went with gnome this time around.
  • malmon 08-31-2019, 05:12 PM
    (08-31-2019, 04:47 PM)mage_princess Wrote: My laptop and my server run Fedora. My vm lab (windows 10 desktop host) has a slew of things. Ubuntus, kalis, remnux, pfsense. Metasploitable. 

    I used to run arch on my laptop, and it was good. Never quite got around to customizing my awesome  wm how I wanted, and the defaults were lacking. I'm forced to use macs at work, so I went with gnome this time around.


    Hmm, why Windows for the VM host?
  • mage_princess 08-31-2019, 05:57 PM
    Its also where I play games. And VMware licenses are cheap when you buy them off of bulk re-sellers on amazon. I got spoiled when school bought me a year long license for VMware.

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Mandatory distro question